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| Tyrion Lannister by ~Bodach via deviantART |
This illustration is so fantastic to me. Tyrion looks like such a creep and I kind of love that he's essentially in a bathrobe and slippers (which I am not sure is canon at all, or that it even makes sense).
This is one of those chapters that's just such a mind-fuck, and something that GRRM is so good at. We find out that Jaime has been lying to Tyrion for about a decade, it seems like? Tysha wasn't a whore, and Tyrion had actually met a woman who loved him for himself, but his father stole her away from him for his own crazy reasons (which Brendan and I argue about in-depth).
Also, Tywin is super anti-whore, and yet Tyrion walks into the tower of the hand to find Shae in his bed, which results in a pretty ugly side of Tyrion suddenly emerging. Brendan and I also discuss what this means for Tyrion as a human being. Does this make him a bad person, or can Brendan at least see why others would feel that way? What do I think of it? And where do we go from here?
Thanks for listening!
I was going to comment on a couple of fan theories, but then I realized the main one has a bunch of evidence in the next books, so I'll hold my tongue. There's another theory is that this is all a set up by Varys, because a lot of people don't think that Tywin would sleep with Shae, so they think they planted her there and then put a convenient crossbow at a level Tyrion could reach so that he would get mad and then kill Tywin. I don't really buy it because there's too many coincidences, to the point where I think it would have been easier for Varys kill Tywin himself and frame Tyrion for the deed. Also I'm not really sure that Tywin wouldn't sleep with whores. There's other theories out there that Tywin is the Hand who built the secret passage to Chattaya's brothel. Anyway, food for thought.
ReplyDeleteI'm still interested to see where they take this with the show, since Shae is an actual character who genuinely seems to care for Tyrion. I can see them showing her being coerced into testifying, but then I don't think she would reveal more about their relationship then necessary, which I think Brendan is correct as identifying what pushed him over the edge when talking to her.
I sort of love how undignified Tywin's death is. Naq ubj haqvtavsvrq uvf jnxr naq shareny ner nf jryy. His reputation and name are so important to him, and how he's dead on the shitter with his dwarf son's dead whore naked in his bed. Oh the irony. To bad he never had the chance to appreciate that Tyrion was a son made in his likeness and that he should have taken advantage of his mind and not treated him like shit.
I do think a lot of claims of Tyrion being a misogynist start in this chapter, though I agree with Natasha, I don't think this made anyone who liked him before hate him. I think it was a heat of the moment thing, where he was dealing with the news of his wife's rape and his betrayal to her, as well as his father's really shitty treatment of him. Then another women he loved rubbed in his face how much she betrayed him and belittled him in front of everyone. I don't think it makes his murder of her excusable, but I can understand what motivated it.
Three more main events I can't wait to hear you discuss in this book!
I am a person who did like Tyrion up until this chapter (though technically I do not hate him now, I just don’t like him). His actions here are inexcusable. On subsequent rereads he is much less charming and his faults much more apparent.
ReplyDeleteHe is a murderer and a raper.
Tysha being a daughter of the Westerlands must have certainly known who Jaime and Tyrion were. They are both infamous. The Kingslayer is perhaps the most infamous person in Westeros. Tywin’s position is that Tysha is a gold digger, which seems to me to be true. I don’t really blame her. Tysha was an orphaned crofter’s daughter. Her prospects in a medieval world are shitty at best. Marrying a kind, well off man is the best she can hope for. Whether she loved Tyrion or not is impossible to determine. Adult Tyrion loves Shae and thinks she loves him, I don’t really put much faith in teenage Tyrion’s perception and ability to determine the authenticity of Tysha’s feelings. Quite possibly she just told him what he wanted to hear.
Tyrion, when he married Tysha, was the heir to Casterly Rock. One of the most valuable things that any noble House has is a marriage contract with the heir. For Tyrion to just marry the first farmer’s daughter that isn’t reviled by him (or at least hides it) is obviously unacceptable. Tyrion must have known that. He put Tysha in an impossible and unsustainable position. Their marriage can not stand once Tywin finds out.
The gang rape is all about succession and the heir. Tyrion was the heir. He married Tysha legally in front of the seven gods. If Tywin just sends her away she can come back in 15 years and say this is my son he is Lord Lannister. Tywin either has to murder her or publicly nullify any potential claim to paternity. Is public gang rape better or worse than murder? In Tywin’s mind obviously she got paid fairly for her couple of weeks with Tyrion.
Tywin is not broadly anti-whore. He almost certainly uses prostitutes regularly and likely was the Hand that had the tunnel to Chataya’s built. What he is against is about small folk not knowing their place. Tyrion does not use prostitutes, he deludes himself into thinking he has a relationship with them. This is not my analogy but I think it is perfect so I will steal it. If a father had a son that was an alcoholic and he tried to stop his son from drinking, you wouldn’t call that father a hypocrite for having a glass of wine. The problem is Tyrion’s not Tywin’s.